Waiting for Guffman

Pack your bags and grab your "Remains of the Day" lunchbox. This week on Least Important Things, we are traveling to the "Stool Capital of the World"—Blaine, Missouri—to rewatch the 1997 mockumentary masterpiece, Waiting for Guffman.

Mike Wynne returns to the podcast with Luke Ferris to discuss the ambitious musical celebration Red, White and Blaine and the man with the dream: Corky St. Clair. From the improvised genius of Christopher Guest and Eugene Levy to the late Catherine O'Hara, we break down why this film is the blueprint for every modern self-aware comedy.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The Mockumentary Lineage: Why modern hits like The Office and Parks & Rec owe a massive debt to the unique style of Guest.
• A 16mm Juggernaut: How the team worked from a 25-page "beat sheet" rather than a script, and how editor Andy Blumenthal whittled 60 hours of footage down to 84 minutes
• Best Lines: The most stacked "Bestie" category to date. 
• O'Hara's Legacy: Mike and Luke share their love for the late-great Catherine O'Hara and her legacy of joy. 

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Sources for this episode:

• Royalty-free music and sound effects via Artlist.com
• Waiting for Guffman (1996) Official Trailer - Christopher Guest, Deborah Theaker Movie HD

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I was, you know, just on eBay looking for things to put on the back of our new set here. And I was like, you know, I wanted something that's unique. Obviously, we have artwork, we have books, uh, added some VHSs, but I was like, I need something that like really stands out or is and eBay is like just a black hole. You you can just go on forever and ever. And then I found something that I was like, this this is unique, it's niche, uh, and I think it really would make the studio pop. Um, it's the dinner with Andre action figures, and I thought I thought I'd put a bed on those. Oh my god. The great thing about the those action figures is you can you can actually play out the conversation. I think that's the best part, right? It's waiting for Guffman coming up next on least important things. Wait, that was the cold. That was the cold open.

SPEAKER_04 0:55

That was cold. Got Ron and Sheila on board again.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

Newcomer Alan Pearl. I have a very lazy eye, which these uh prescription glasses help Libby. I've been working here at the DQ for about um.

SPEAKER_04 1:19

And of course, Lloyd and I, it's like Rams butting heads. Certainly, Corky has brought something to our little theatrical community. He's definitely um different. You know, he can just do everything there is to do, and there's only one other person in the world that can do that, and that's Barbara Streisand. I have a little announcement to make.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Joining me today is someone the friends of the show have been waiting to sit in the reserved podcast co-host seat for a long time. It's Mike Wynne. Welcome back to the show. Oh, so good to be back.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Uh, it's it, you know, it was a long uh labor negotiation lockout period, but um, you know, it uh eventually our sides were able to come together, our representation were able to come together, and you know, I was able to, you know, secure a new um a new deal to uh to appear.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

No extra podcasts. You do one more podcast, but you get royal, like an extra bump on the royalties, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Yeah, it was really important. Um, you know, what here's the problem, here's what happened is um unfortunately somebody leaked to me the details of Zach Hall's deal.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Oh, okay. I see.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Because I you know I know my value. Okay. Yes, you do, yes and um, you know, love and respect Zach, but um, you know, I I wanted to make sure that I was properly compensated.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

That's okay. You gotta do for you. Uh, but we're glad to have you back. It's been too long. The the fans, the listeners have been yearning for you, they've been sick of me. So we're glad to have you back. Uh, how you doing, buddy? How you feeling?

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Uh doing good, doing good. Yeah, it's been um a whirlwind. Um yeah, so like five weeks ago, um Shannon and I had a baby boy, and uh he's been great. He's been great. Um it's been great.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

He actually just before we recorded, was was I didn't record it, but he did make a cameo. So he's he's already started to get into the the podcast network here. When we do our Bluey rewatch series in a couple of years, we just got to get him prepped for that.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Right. Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm looking forward to that actually. Um, I've been looking for an excuse to watch Bluey. It's really good. It's kind of sad if a 30-year-old man is watching Bluey without any children.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Yeah, the worst is like if I watch it with like my brother and my nephews, and then like the nephews leave and we're still watching it. It's like, okay, this is not we don't have to be watching this, but it's just on. Yeah, it gets you in, you know, it's good values, it's the accents, it's it's good. I can't wait for our deep dive. I love it. So yeah, no, happy to be back. And you you pick this movie, which I think is really fitting, and we're gonna get into it. Um, but I don't want to spoil our overall thoughts, but I had an absolute blast watching this movie for the first time, so I'm cannot wait to talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Yeah, you know, uh to be honest, this movie was not at all on my radar. Um, and and frankly, this wouldn't really be a movie that's on Litz radar. Um, right. If it weren't for, you know, and we'll get into it, but um yeah, this was uh this was an awesome film to watch. And it was like it I'm I'm surprised that this movie maybe it's not long enough for TV because I'm surprised it doesn't get shown.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

It's crazy that this wasn't on TBS and TNT every weekend, but I think because it's so short, yeah. But they had deleted scenes, so I don't know why they couldn't stuff because a lot of times what that happens when they have syndicated movies on TV, they want to stretch them out longer. So that's why a lot of times you'll get deleted scenes within the TV cut that aren't in the theatrical cut. Uh most famously, the original Halloween has deleted scenes in the TV version a lot of times, or originally when they started showing it on TV, because they want to extend it to add more commercials in. So I don't know what gives. I don't want gives. I think a prejudice, a prejudice on on this movie, I guess. Yeah. But we'll get into it. We'll get into it. Before we dive into our conversation on waiting for Guffin, whether it's first time listening or watching, or you're a friend of the show, thank you for being here. Please remember to subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast or on YouTube so you don't miss an episode dropping every Tuesday. You can also connect with the show at leastimportantthings.com, email leastimportantthings at gmail.com, and then you can follow us on social media. Find those in the show notes below. We have a Patreon where you can become a free member to receive email alerts when new new episodes are released, video updates, exclusive conversations, and additional information about the episode. We recently posted Zach Hall's recipe to see if something holds up. Uh so go ahead, uh take that recipe and filter it on a movie like Maybe Waiting for Gruffman. Um and for the same price as a dinner with Andre action figure, you can become a friend of the show and get exclusive content in a least important thing. Sticker supporting the show helps us cover costs of promotion and production tools and make more episodes like this one. Visit patreon.com/slash least important things. Most importantly, this is an independent podcast, and the best way you can help the show is by recommending it to somebody. So please, if you're waiting in the concession line during an intermission, during a local theater production, please recommend least important things. As you know, every rewatch episode, we have a sponsor for the show. And I only have sponsors on these episodes if I truly believe in what they offer as an organization, service, or product. And this episode, of course, is sponsored by the Blaine Historical Society. If you're looking for the artifacts, stories, and the lore of Blaine, look no further than the Blaine Historical Society. Bill Burgess will entertain you with all the legendary stories of Blaine from the town's founding to the stool boom to the alien abductions. At the Blaine Historical Society, you'll be so inspired that you'll want to stay in Blaine forever. The Blaine Historical Society. Thank you for sponsoring today's show. All right, Mike, we have the back of the VHS. Can you read the back of the VHS for Waiting for Gotman?

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Yep. For the first time.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

For the first time, of course.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

Blaine, Missouri, maybe little, but that will not stop Corky St. Clair from dreaming big. He's determined to get back into the bright lights of Broadway, and he thinks he has the ticket. He's created Red, White, and Blaine, an ambitious musical celebrating the town's 150th anniversary. This is Spinal Taps. Christopher Guest plays Corky in the acclaimed comedy, Eugene Levy, Catherine O'Hara, Parker Posey, Fred Willard, and Bob Balabon co-star as stage-struck residents who pin their hopes of being discovered on Corky's hilariously hapless theater production and on reports that big-time talent scout Mort Guffman will be in attendance.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Ooh, Mike Wynn nailed it. He's back. You know, he was in that lockout, but he just came in, dropped 50 points. First game, back. Double nickel's done. That's how it's done, baby. This movie is directed, was directed by Christopher Guest, as mentioned, written by Christopher Guest and Eugene Levy, starring, as Mike said, Christopher Guest, Eugene Levy, Catherine Rojera, Fred Willard, Parker Posey, and many more comedy legends. Facts that you can fact check. I'm not going to do the work for you. Waiting for Guffin was released in limited theaters on January 31st, 1997. Actually came out in 96. And then the Toronto Film Festival Festival and another film festival, but very limited run in 96, but came out in theaters in 97. That weekend, uh in January of 97, not a lot going on in the theaters. You could have seen the special edition re-release of Star Wars and New Hope. That would have been a fun night at the theaters. The budget was roughly 4 million and it made about 2.9 million at the domestic box office, which again, this is all part of the lore of this movie and how it's built and respect as a cult classic over time. It was filmed in Lockhart, Texas, just south of Austin, and roughly 30 days. It was a quick shoot. Levy and Guest developed a unique style where they would write a detailed 15 to 25 page beat sheet or outline, but no real dialogue was written for this movie. It was mainly improvised besides the actual musical numbers, which to me is so impressive.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

Yeah. That's incredible. The fact that they just kind of knew this is where we're going to start, this is where we're going to end. And these are a couple points we got to hit in between. I mean, it's no, it's no wonder. I mean, you're going to get to the the mountain of footage that they had um to edit. Uh, but yeah, so it's not a surprise that that that that became the truth.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

In the scene where Corky Christopher Guest teaches the cast dance moves, and Eugene Levy was barely visible in the back. This is because Levy was so just like losing it. Uh, he was laughing every time Guest started to do his dance moves. So they just decided to put him in the back. I just love that because that just reminds me of not what we're doing. Like, we're not making a movie, but I feel like if we made a movie together, I'd one of us probably would lose it and not be able to get through a scene. So we'd have to put you put us in the back. It's like it shows you that these were truly friends making this movie. This is a low budget indie movie comedy, uh, and friends just going for and having a blast. Christopher Guest spent a year and a half editing the almost 60 hours of footage, as Mike said, with editor editor Andy Blumenthal to come up with the final cut of the film. This is why when people are always talking about, oh, they improved this, or oh, on this TV show, they improved. It's not necessarily true. A lot of times, the and we'll talk about Parks and Rack in the office. A lot of times what they would do, they would have extra cuts. So if they were on time, they would maybe add something. And that was in the digital age. Like the reason why you didn't improv for movies on film is because film costs money, and it would took extra time costs money for the crew, so it's pretty unique. But on an indie film, you can do this. They actually shot this on 16 millimeter to actually have it feel like a true uh low-budget documentary. But I think that served them because they weren't spending all this extra money on high production value of 35 millimeter film. But still, this is not digital film. This is they had to cut, edit, splice this together, which is really impressive. The music and lyrics, of course, for Red, White, and Blaine were written and composed by Christopher Guest, but also Michael McKean and Harry Scheer, who were the three stars of This Is Spinal Tap, which just came which came out in '84, uh, what really put uh Christopher Guest on the scene. Parker Posey and Matt Keisler also appeared in Scream 3 together. That's a fun one. Uh, we we haven't talked about the Scream franchise, but it's one of our favorites as friends and fans. So those are the facts that you can fact check. I'm not gonna do the work for you. All right, Mike, let's move on to OT's overall thoughts. What is your history with this movie? Uh, and just tell the listeners like why this came about because we were texting, and after uh, you know, intense negotiations, we were able to communicate and it was like, okay, what what movie do you want to watch? What do you want to talk about? And you picked this movie. Why did you pick this movie?

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Yeah, so I uh I'm not one that really gets um okay. So my my history with this movie is there is none. There is no history with this movie, it is not on my radar. Um, I probably I to be quite honest, I didn't even know it existed until this year, um, when it showed up on Netflix or or wherever it showed up recently. And um I we yeah, we were going back and forth on what we should do on my um my return and on your comeback tour. Yeah, and I'm not one that really gets uh roped up into like celebrity celebrities passing away. I think part of that is my age. And so like the celebrities I'm like connected to, um, or or have like some emotional connection to are still quite young and not dying yet. Um, but uh I would say the very first celebrity that I was like when I heard that they died was like, oh my gosh, like that sucks, like big time was when Catherine O'Hara recently passed away. Yeah, and I adore Catherine O'Hara. She is one of my all-time favorite um actresses, comedians. Um, yeah, everything she's in, uh, she just absolutely kills. And um, this is no exception. And so when we were talking, I was like, you know, this has kind of been on my mind recently of like of I wanted to watch anything, I wanted to watch stuff she was in to just kind of remember, yeah, uh, remember her. And I hadn't seen this yet. So we agreed we would watch this, and I really didn't know anything about it other than that she kills in it.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

And I think it was an emotional reaction to obviously losing someone, which felt like it was unexpected, someone who was, I wouldn't even call it a comeback of their career, but someone who had gone to the next level of notoriety. Most people of our generation knew her from the Home Alone movies. Yeah. Shitscreek comes along, and all of a sudden everyone realizes how prolific her career's been and start going back into her other work, and a lot of people feel connected to the characters she played in Shits Creek, and then she's done so many things since Shits Creek. I haven't watched the studio yet. You just you started watching the studio, you just finished like it's a lot of uh both critical and popular acclaim for her performance and that, and it just felt like we're gonna get so much more Catherine O'Hara, and I think that's when it really stings when an artist that you are looking forward to seeing what they do, yeah, feels like they get taken away from you, and she was it's not like she's in her 20s, but it just felt like she had this second era of her career, and she was getting all these opportunities that it wasn't an indie uh comedy movie, it wasn't uh cameo here or there, like she was getting these big roles and doing great work, and so it's it is kind of frustrating from a consumeristic perspective, but also just heart-wrenching. And I I talked about it in my Oscars episode. It's when you're when you're in that watching that segment of the Oscars and you see someone like her her name comes up, it's it really like it's surprising how emotional you can get.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Yeah, and so I've watched a ton of her or a ton of stuff that she's been in recently. Like I'm a huge I I haven't re-watched Shits Creek, but I I watched Shit's Creek, that is amazing. Um I watched um another another one, another comedic hero of mine that um died a long, long time ago, but John Candy's docum I Like Me. I watched that and she features a ton in it because they were incredible friends going all the way back to SCTV. Right. And um I watched um the studio, which she just absolutely kills in. It's just so good. That show uh the whole show is great. But um, one of the things that stands out to me about O'Hara that um is maybe maybe like personalizes it for me a little bit, is she actually reminds me a lot, or she doesn't necessarily, but her care one of her characters reminds me a ton of my mother. And um it's the it's Kevin's mom in Home Alone. And my mom is like there's no real like this isn't this this isn't gonna sound entirely flattering, but like if you know my mom or have been around her a lot, like I think um you would you would kind of understand my mom is the type of person that Kevin's mom is, in that um, on the one hand, you see like this incredible desperation and passion, and like we'll stop at another, we'll run through brick walls to like make sure her son is safe because something like it's a world injustice, like that she has to make this right, right? But at the same time, like entirely plausible that she did this, like so, like it's it's hard. I think when you watch that movie, you're like, how can a mother who's like so um invested in protecting her son be so careless to like to like let this happen? And I think that that's part of the joke. But at the same time, like growing up with a mom who like would often forget to pick me up from school, so I had to call my grandfather to like get me um because she took it, was taking a nap on the couch. She wasn't delinquent as a mother, but it's just these are kind of like quirks about my mom. And um, so O'Hara's character in Home Alone was somebody who really reminded me of home. And um, I love my mom to death. And um, I always really connected with her character in that movie. And um, you know, I it was um at first, you know, difficult to separate art from the artist because you know, Kevin's mom is not Catherine O'Hara, right? But but um that was my introduction to Katherine O'Hara, right? And um, and from that moment, um, I kind of just saw her as like, oh, she's the woman that kind of reminds me of my mom, even if every one of her characters is very dynamic and different.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Yeah, I totally get that. I always I think my siblings would back me up. Joan Cusack's performance in school of rock reminds me a lot of my mom, uh, because she's very organized, she loves kids, she worked in the school system. Um, but she's like a would you would you kind of get her in her element? She's she's uh she's a music fan, she's a little bit of a I um people my siblings hate this, but she's a little bit of a hippie, not in the like hippie piece love sense, but and like she's she loves to dance, she loves music, but she's been running a household for a number of years and it takes care of everybody and is like very focused. Uh, but it's just also the mannerism. So you like I have an affinity for Joan Cusack, even though like her character in gross point blank, nothing like my mom, but I there that initial connection I had with her as a kid in school of rock. I I kind of want to follow her and support her that way. I totally, I totally get that. I totally totally make sense. And I think Katherine Rahira in that role in Home Alone, she is like a millennial mom, like she's the mom character that we all feel connected to growing up with that movie, and then seeing her in all this work going if you go down the rabbit hole of her comedic lineage, SETV, all those Canadian friends. I re-listened to their episode on Conan's podcast, which was all the way back pre-pandemic, just breaking down the friendships and the connections, and how it was like this group in Toronto and Ontario in Canada, just all kind of it's one of the most incredible comedic casts ever assembled. It's this troop that went on to be the most dynamic comedic legends of their generation, uh, and in kind of a unsung way, like it just kind of came out of nowhere, and it's so fun to like be able to go. Back and see all of her work. And this movie was on my list for a while. I watched Best and Show. I think right when Shits Creek started to pick up momentum, and my wife and I started watching it. I we put on Best and Show, and I was like, oh my gosh. And I already knew about Christopher Guest because of Spinal Tap, which I had seen as a teenager, but it kind of was like, okay, there's a lot more here. Yeah. There's a lot more of this type of comedy that you get a little bit in Shits Creek, but it's it's it opens up all this lineage of comedic legends that maybe aren't on TNT on a Saturday afternoon or not maybe shown, or if unless your parents had the VHS, you probably wouldn't have watched it. And I think that's what's fun about going back. And we don't really do this very often on this show, is like we don't like do a cold movie that we both have never seen unless it's part of a franchise. So it was fun to to jump into waiting for Guffman, and I was not disappointed. I was I there was times where I was I don't laugh out loud a lot by myself, and I had to laugh out loud because it was the the natural reaction to this.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

I was struggling with that too, Luke, because I watched this movie while I was also trying to get my son to sleep on me, and so like I'm watching this that's tough.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

You're setting yourself up for failure at this one.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

And he's like, he's he's kind of like on my shoulder or whatever. And then I like yeah, is I was like, start laughing, and I'm like muffling my laughter so that it doesn't wake my son.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Yeah, I was shocked. I knew this format went back to Christopher Guest. If you watch This Is Spinal Tap, it's the historic, it's not the start of the mockumentary, but it really changes the what the mockumentary is. Like the term mockumentary started with This Is Spinal Tap, and Christopher Guest was a star of that. He takes this format a few years later and tackles it and uses it with Waiting for Guffman. But every mock modern mockumentary or self-aware TV comedy show from the British office to community owes its lineage to, of course, Spinal Tap, but it's Waiting for Guffman and guests work after this. Because if you watch this movie and you're a Parks and Rec fan office fan, Modern Family, and you watch this this movie, you're gonna be like, wait, did they just make a movie? Did they just rip off Parks and Wreck? Oh no. Those those shows are sourcing from Waiting for Guffman.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

And I and I think Parks and Wreck is the perfect like parallel here, right? Because um, this movie, Waiting for Guffman, focuses on small town, like uh like politics and a lot of characters, yes, politics and characters, but should they're tied together.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

If you've ever been to your local city council meeting, these people exist.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

Yes, a hundred percent. And so yeah, I texted you. I was like, this movie is the spiritual father to or the spiritual mother to um uh Parks and Rec, um, which we which we know is um uh created by people who helped create the US office. And so I mean, like there's um yeah, but but you're right, it all goes back to um Spinal Tap and Waiting for Guffman and this style that was kind of pioneered by Guest, um, even though he didn't invent it, he really perfected it. And you watch these movies, and these movies are from the 80s and 90s, and they are familiar because it's what you're currently watching right now.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

That's so true. It's pretty rare to take a comedy from the 80s and 90s and show it to someone who's not a comedy fan or hasn't has no history of of this comedic lineage going back to SCTV and SNL, and for them to be like, oh yeah, this is just a long parks and rec episode.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Yeah, like how many times have have you heard um you know your parents say, Oh, Blazing Saddles is like the funniest movie ever made? And like it is funny, um, or young Frankens Frankenstein's the funniest movie ever made. And it's like, okay, yeah, those early Mel Brooks movies are hilarious, but there's there's there's several reasons why they don't hold up, and it's that our taste and humor just change over time. Um, and also filmmaking just changes over time. But um, Christopher Guest really did something evergreen without even trying to do it because he he did something that uh he had no idea that fast forwarding 30 years in the future was gonna be more relevant than than it was when you know he made where every TV show is essentially using your your comedic format.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Well, and and and in the jokes, all the like all the jokes, I all the all the beats, the comedic timing, all the jokes all come back to this.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

And and you know, we had the we had the um TV successes of The Office and Parks and Rec and 30 Rock and um some of these shows that were really successful in the early to mid 2000s, and then um there was there was some fatigue and networks went away from them, but none of the shows that they went to were successful, and they were like, Oh, actually, people really just love these like these um multicam um uh shows where we do spin-off, we do interviews with the cast or whatever, and there there's like self-awareness, and it's like so I yeah, it's it's kind of it was incredible to watch and knowing nothing about the movie to realize that like oh this this is where it came from.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Yeah, and we we both love comedy podcasts and hearing comedians talk, tell stories. And I feel like that's where I really knew this movie from is referenced like Waiting for Guffman. Like it was a it was a movie that was always referenced, almost a sacred text to all these more modern generations of comedians and writers that created Parks and Rec, created the office that are doing all this modern work. They always reference this movie, so it was really fun to like look at it and be like, oh no, it's not just them saying this, like it's some niche comedy thing, it's it's the format, it's the formula that we all owe lineage today. And I actually was a little mad after watching this, and I was like, why is this movie not bigger?

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Yeah, why is that way bigger? It's like it should be so crazy.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

I like feel like this movie should be talked about and watched and rewatched all the time.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

I I I'm I'm shocked that it went to Toronto Film Festival, which is a massive film festival, yeah, and uh didn't get like didn't get picked up by by like a huge production company and like just thrown everywhere because it's and it's probably because they I don't I don't even know why. Like like it's short, yes, it's short. Um, but I almost feel like that would be good for a movie theater screenings.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Think about the 90s, we are in the era of the comedian movie where you don't go to see a quirky idea of an ensemble cast of comedians, you go to a Jim Carrey movie, you go to an Eddie Murphy movie.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

So I think it was just an era of Spinal Tap worked, Spinal Tap was a huge hat.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, that's the thing. You would think that it would have. Uh I I don't know if it was because Spinal Tap was such a it was tied to music and that made it work. But again, I I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

This movie needs to get turned up to 11, though.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

It absolutely does. Let's turn it up to 11 and go into Lisies and Besties. Let's start with Leesties. Uh, we're gonna have some fun in this one. Least likely to make it in showbiz. Least likely to make it in showbiz. Now this could be controversial, but uh here's a few. Okay, we have Corky Sinclair, of course. We have Dr. Alan Pearl, we have Ron and Sheila Albertson, and then we have Libby Mae Brown. So, Mike, what do you who do you think out of this group is least likely to make it in showbiz?

SPEAKER_02 30:14

Well, I think it's Dr. Alan Pearl for me. Um, just I mean, that that character is I it's hard to pick a favorite character, but his character was so good. That's for listeners, if you haven't watched it yet, what are you doing? But uh yeah, Eugene Levy's character, Dr. Alan Pearl, is perfect.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

He he plays it so goofy. It's it's so good. I actually say he might be very successful. I think he found a niche in Miami. I think if he waits long enough, he could start a YouTube channel and have this like you know, do this dentist bit. He could be like the the the entertainment dentist. I don't know. I I think there's something there. I think the nursing home circuit would work out for him. I think he'd have a lot of gigs. I don't know if he's gonna get paid a lot. I I think Ron and Sheila, you they you kind of see in the epilogue, we're jumping to the end of the movie, that but that they eventually make it to Hollywood, quote unquote, but they're just extras in a commercial. I think they they're gonna make it though, because they have the gift of yeah, just like blind stupidity. Like they truly they truly believe in themselves, like to a fault. So I think they actually would make it. Libby Mae Brown, I'm a bit worried about. I think she had the talent, I think she just got stuck in Alabama. Maybe she's working for corporate dairy queen. She had some good ideas. I thought she was good. Uh Libby Mae. Least realistic but somehow perfect name for a character. This might be the waiting for Guffman, least realistic but somehow perfect name for a character, uh, least he moving forward.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

This is a hard one.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

There's a lot of good ones. So we've talked about the lineage of this movie and how it impacted the generation who made all the other shows that we love. Mike Scher, one of the creators of Parks and Rec, he talks about not specifically this movie, but he talks about how much he loves names of characters. Yeah. And how he would spend hours and hours just putting in names in a basket and trying to think of the most interesting kind of titles. And part of that was I found out, and he I think he shared this on Amy Puller's podcast, is that if you had an actual name of a person in a TV show, I think you had to do some sort of you couldn't essentially use a real person's name as a character where you were filming, or it had something to do with SAG or something like that. Um, so he was he like loved the competition of coming up with quirky names, anyways. That's just a side story.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

He is a he is addicted to names. He did a bit for the Dan Levitard show where he read um like thousands of 90s uh journeyman baseball player names and just recorded it and gave it to the Levitard show, and they play it as a rejoin every now and then. Like almost like you're open up the calm app, and an option is listen to Mike Scher read 90s journeyman baseball players.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

It's so great. But here's some great names. Corky St. Clair, Dr. Alan Pearl already mentioned Ron and Sheila Albertson already mentioned Libby May Brown, already mentioned, Clifford Wooly, Johnny and Red Savage, Gwyn Fabin Blunt, and Blaine Fabin. Uh, all great names, just so special. They're just perfect. What's your what's your like least realistic but somehow perfect name for worldly characters? I mean, like it's for me, it's gotta be Quirky. It's clear. It's the best. It's the best. It wins every time.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

Yeah, it's because I I'm sure this is intentional, but like Quirky sounds like Quirky, and the whole character for him is Quirky.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

It's really interesting because my grandpa's nickname is Quirky. Oh, yeah. But I've never heard really anybody ever use it. So this was the first time I've heard somebody use it. And it is, it's Quirky Quirky. Say, but St. Clair as well. So there's like yeah, part of me thinks that this this was a made, he made this name up, right? Like this is his stage name. Yeah. Wow. We could have had three movies of Quirky St. Clair.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Yeah. We could add a spit on. Instead of instead of like 15 Ernst movies, we could have had a few quirky St. St.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Clair moves. Well, that wins, uh, but a lot of great names. I do love Alan Pearl for the dentist. That is so good. It's it's pretty pretty spot on. And I also like uh Blaine Fabin as the founder of Blaine. I just think that's that's great. And Gwen Fab Fabin Blunt, his his ancestor. Uh such good names. All right, let's move on to besties. We've got some really good categories here. Uh, some of the toughest besties we're ever gonna have to decide on. Okay, best comedic cameo role. There are so many small little roles in this movie that stand out in big ways. So, starting out with Gwen Fabin Blunt, the aforementioned, played by Deborah Thieker, that's the councilwoman and descendant of the town's founder. David Cross as the UFO nerd. I was jumping out of my seat when I saw him. And there's just one scene, and that's it. William Murray, that's Bill Murray's brother, as Red Savage, Johnny Savage's dad. Phil Burgess as Don Lake, the town historian, as I mentioned in our ad. Steve Stark, played by Michael Hitchcock, the city councilman, fanboy of Corky, who what a fun character. Mayor Glenn Welsh, played by Larry Miller, is the mayor, of course. Uh, and he's in a ton of stuff. Bob Bellaban as the school conductor, and then Mrs. Pearl, Linda Cash. What's your best comedic cameo role out of all these amazing comics doing just the quirkiest characters?

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Okay, so David Cross, because he's my favorite, just period. I just I adore David Cross, hero rest of development fans. Um, he's also in a show that um because kind of similar to this movie, never really got the attention it deserved. I don't know if you ever saw it, but it's called The Increasingly Poor Decisions of Todd Margaret. No, yeah, it was produced by Will Arnett, and um, so like Will Arnett and David Cross are in this show, and I think it only got one or two seasons. And um it's yeah, that's that's a different lit, uh like indulgent lit lit episode for me.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

He's in a ton of stuff, and this is right when he's really starting to make a name for himself. I think he was he in the Ben Stiller show. Uh I feel like this is when he was. Yeah, he was this is this was right about the time when him and Ben Stiller were collaborating on stuff and his notoriety started to pop off in these small roles. But yeah, I think that went for me. Obviously, I love William Murray uh showing up for fans of Groundhog's Day. He is uh the in charge of the groundhog, and he's been a lot of other stuff, but I I love seeing William Murray. I wish I actually could have seen a little bit more of him, but down the line, all of these performances were fantastic. Shout out to Linda Cash as a Mrs. Pearl. She has some great lines and is perfect playing next uh Eugene Levy. All right. I can't believe we're using this one so quickly after this this bestie was created. The get your head in the game honorary best musical number. Wow. I must have missed it.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

My mic was like, what happened when I had a child? Yes, we didn't know.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

What happened while I was yes, we did a high school musical rewatch for the 20th anniversary, Mike. I'm surprised you didn't tune in to that one. Uh, listeners, if you haven't listened to it, that is that is a wild ride. So get your head in the game, honorary best for best musical number. Okay, we have covered wagons, open toed shoes, stool boom, a penny for your thoughts, which is oh my god. When Corky has to really tag in for the musical uh because of the dropout. Uh nothing ever happens on Mars. And then I'll throw in a couple of the auditions, and then including the teacher's pet audition with Parker Posey.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

But do you have a favorite musical number? I I do not have a favorite, but here's something I want to kind of say about the movie as a whole. So the whole time you're watching the movie, I don't know. This is does this even can this isn't a spoiler, uh, but it's kind of like an Easter egg. Um, the whole time you're watching the movie, you get the impression like these guys have no idea what they're doing. This is right, this is this is gonna be an absolute friggin' disaster. And then you get to the musical, and it's like the the musical is better than the movie that the musical is in. Like the musical is actually super good, and the music is actually like great.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

It's spot on, like it is actually really good community theater. Yes, they like it's they play it so authentic, and I think that was the the big surprise at the movie outside of the the laughs was that it actually worked, like it actually was a decent musical, and I think that's why you if you watch Parks and Wreck, there's I would say Parks and Wreck over the office, maybe later season the office. But the I like Parks and Wreck because there's a little bit more love in that show. They want the characters to succeed. That we laugh at them and they're really quirky, but we do in the end want them to succeed and pull it off, and that's what they do in Best of Show. Like they actually show them doing a decent musical for a community like rural community. It's it's pretty amazing. The penny for your thoughts is so good because you have Parker Posey and Christopher Guest, who's this is the layers of comedy. Christopher Guest uh is one like he's doing a musical number as like the character in the musical, but he's playing Corky, who is elated but nervous, like because he just got to he's essentially filling in for the young hunk who is not allowed to be in the musical. So he's has all these emotions where he's last minute trying to fill this gap, but he's also loving being on stage, but he's a little nervous because Guffman's watching them, but he's also thriving, but it's also a character in the musical, like this World War One soldier character. It's it's so good. The layers that he's able to do in that scene are are unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

I I just I really like all of the I actually really like all of the songs in the musical. Like I was just kind of shocked that they spent enough time doing that. I guess when you don't write a real script and you just have a beat by beat, like this is what's gonna happen, you have plenty of time to write the music. But and then we didn't talk about I don't know if you have it later on, but the music director.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Um Bellman, such a great straight man, straight man, and there's a reason why he's in Wes Anderson movies uh in the next decade in the 2000s. He starts being a part of the Wes Anderson players because his straight lace, like almost into camera sternness, is a perfect contrast to Corky's flair. Yeah, it's it's a it's a it is the classic straight man performance where you don't get a like he's he's not the villain, but he's he's a little bit the he's the enemy of Corky in some ways, and their their debate is one of my favorite scenes, and we'll get into that later on. All right, let's move on to I think our might be our toughest. This is the best picture, right? Yeah, of all time. It's the best line in this movie. Yeah. I I've I don't know what to do. I don't know if I should read all these out, but I'm gonna pull out a few of my favorites based on the character. Uh, but this whole movie is re you could just re-watch it every joke writing.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

So many people in this movie just on their A game for it, whether it was improv or writing or whatever it was, like like so many good lines. I texted you as I was watching this. I'm like, we are gonna have a difficult time with the bestie for best line.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

You're right. I I'll just start and then we'll see what we what I miss. But for Quirky, of course, our our lead character. I'm gonna go home and I'm going to bite my pillow, is what I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

You're bastard people. That's who you are, just bastard people. Well, then I hate you. I hate your ass face. And then this is I I was crying over here.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

We have some new lunchboxes that we've gotten in. The remains of the day lunchbox, and the kids they're just having such a good time with these.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

You know, kids don't like eating lunch at school, but if they've got a remains of the day lunchbox, they're a whole lot happier.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

It just it's everything that that is Michael Scott. Like when you think about Michael Scott, when he is proud of something, but we're laughing at him. That's just you're just copying that. It's it's there. Uh, Dr. Alan Pearl, one of my favorite ones here. I love to make people laugh, and I've been doing it since school.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

People ask me, Were you the class clown? And I say, No, I wasn't, but I said I was done. The glass on and I studied him. I said he's laughing so hard when he said that's like in the first five minutes of the movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

And Eugene Levy is just so good. I have a feeling. I mean, like, look, I don't know how it actually went down, but I have a really good feeling that the way this line came out was nobody knew what he was gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

Just there. And he says that, and they probably have to reshoot that. Like, oh, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

I was I was probably just la everyone just dying on set.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

And he probably is like when when everyone breaks or like laughs when he says it, uh, he's probably like, oh, should I try some other stuff? Like, no, no, don't that's that that's the line.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

We're uh if you can hear that listeners, uh, what it's raining, there's a little thunderstorm coming. Oh, yeah, yeah, we got it too. So that's the ambiance here. All right, Libby Mae Brown, Parker posted who we didn't talk about. She is like labeled the indie queen, uh, just in so many great indie movies. If you go through her IMDB, I'll always have a place at the DQ. The scene with the ending epilogue scene where she's like cooking one chicken leg on that grill is it's it's remarkable. I think people are basically just people words to lit by. That's just words to lithi. Oh Ron Albertson. Okay. He had some good.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

We're in a glamour profession. We're in a we're in a glamour profession being travel agents. I always have to tell her what impressions I'm doing. That honestly is so good. I'm not gonna lie. I thought about you and Shannon right away. I just like actually I thought that's exactly Shannon. Uh I just I don't know why. I just uh and this might win it for me. We're considered bi coastal if you if you include the Mississippi River, one of the coasts.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

Uh the way he just says it, you know, we're considered bi coastal. Uh as our our our queen, rest in peace, uh Sheila Albertson. I just I feel I feel like I'm not just playing a character.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

I'm playing a woman who's playing a character who's also a stool. Uh do you think he'll like my hair? I've been training to go this way for weeks. Yeah, like talk about the hair, the hair that she has in this movie is so crazy. And then this is the good one. Korky, we love you. We want you to live.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

She uh so Catherine O'Hara, I don't know. Did you see Seth Rogan's um like tribute to her?

SPEAKER_00 47:17

The SAG SAG Awards. Oh, is it the Sag a actor awards now?

SPEAKER_02 47:20

Yeah, so uh Catherine O'Hara won an award for her uh role in the studio, which is just so good. Seth Rogan, who wrote and created the show, accepted it on her behalf, and he just gives like a very short two-minute like acceptance speech, um, just kind of um you know, saying how awesome Catherine was to work with, and you know, yada, yada, yada. And uh one of the things he says, um, he shares a little story about her. He said that because she's not in every episode, she's like in half the episodes, right? Um, that every day that they were going to have a shooting day where she was going to be on set, um, the night before he would get an email, he and the other writers would get an email from her with um uh it would say, Hey, um, I you know, would you politely or you know, kindly consider the following? And then he's like, and then it would proceed to be a complete rewrite of the entire scene that she's in. And then he's like, and it was always better than what than what we had. And uh and like that's just her talent, right? So, like this movie is a perfect kind of movie for someone like her and someone like Eugene Levy and uh Christopher Guest, who are just so witty and off the cuff, and like um, yeah, the I mean that that's why we have so many good lines.

SPEAKER_00 48:39

They just know their characters and they just see it. And that I think that's just years of performing on stage. It's the second city model, and just when you have that many reps as a comedic performer, you know what you want to do. And yeah, it makes sense by the time she's doing the studio, she's like, Okay, I've been doing this, I know my character. Let me let me tell you how it's gonna go down. Uh, you guys figure out the cameras and I'll let I'll let it I'll let it shine.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

Have you seen um this is such this is a bit of a digression, but this is kind of a Katherine O'Hara tribute. But um, have you seen um the outtakes from the home alone uh scene where she's in the van with John Candy? Yes, that's that's so good. For viewers who don't know, John Candy, uh his character, he was the polka king. The deal is um John Candy, John Hughes, brilliant collaborators. John Candy's in a ton of John Hughes movies, and John Hughes um really wanted John Candy to play this character, but John Candy had like literally like 10 hours to do this shoot, he had no time, no time at all. But um they put they basically put him and Catherine O'Hara next to each other for like 10 hours, and they're great friends. They go back to SCTV again, and there's a brilliant outtakes role of everything that they got because they only had these 10 hours, they couldn't do reshoots or anything, so they just have all this stuff. John Candy and Catherine O'Hara are just perfect in it. It's just so good.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

There's I wish that was I wish that was that was the movie, yeah. Uh again, it's like the polka king. You wish you had 10 hours of the polka king, and that is by far my favorite part of that movie, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 50:15

This is a now, this is a home alone podcast, but the the John Candy's cameo in that movie is my favorite part of Home Alone.

SPEAKER_00 50:22

It it takes the movie from just like a great Christmas family movie to a timeless movie that that is that is comedy gold and joyful to watch beyond beyond the years and years to come. Anyway, best line. Sorry, best line. No, that's a good digression. I think any I think this really is a it's we're talking about waiting for Guffman, but it definitely is a Catherine O'Hara episode, and I think that's right as it should be. A Steve Stark by played by Michael Hitchcock, who is the fanboy of Corky. He can act and he can sing and he can dance. There's only one other person in the world who can do all that, and that's Barbara Streisand. Still holds up, still holds up. It's just I love that we have the local fan that essentially sees Corky as Barbara Streisand.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

You know who his character kind of reminds me of is um Jim Carrey's cameo in the office. Oh the fingerlakes guy. No, it's totally different, but like the the cadence and the tone and everything. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

And then we have Mrs. Pearl, as I mentioned, played by Linda Cash. She's perfect. I wonder if this is true of you guys. Uh now we don't associate with the creative types. We have a Scrabble Cub.

SPEAKER_01 51:42

We associate with people with babies. Is that your life now? Yeah, obviously. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

Oh, best line. Is it impossible? Is this impossible? The whole movie. And that's what I'm excited about. I'm excited to rewatch this movie over and over again because I know there's lines that I missed because I was laughing at the previous line.

SPEAKER_02 52:05

That's 100% true. You know, people talk about this with the rest of development that it's underappreciated because of its joke writing, and you only catch half the jokes, if that watching it through the first time. And I gotta I gotta imagine this movie is the exact same where the jokes are just so layered and deep and good that um yeah, we just we're we're missing stuff. And these are not even all the best lines. I just I remember so many lines.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

It's oh I know I I wish I would have done but done a better job when I watched it and was like live texting you.

SPEAKER_02 52:38

I didn't put context for myself, I was just typing one word, so I need to do a the the thing is, listener, if you've gotten to this point, um, congratulations, mom. Thanks for listening. But uh the um you really just need to watch the movie. And if you if you have watched the movie and you're here with us, then you know, then you just know then you know.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

I I want to say my gut reaction the new the were you the class clown?

SPEAKER_01 53:06

No, I wasn't, but I sat aside. I think because that was so early, yes.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

It's known, and I was like, oh this, oh boy, this is going to be yeah, absolutely uh like it just started off so strong, so good that that one stands, and then all the all the lines in the epilogue, but we'll get to that in best scene. Uh again, I think this is impossible. I guess the opening setup scene of all the characters, the auditions, the confrontation with the town council, bastard people, the argument with the music director. So I didn't do musical theater, but you you believe the composer and the music director and the musical director definitely have had those arguments in community theater and have gotten that serious. That is just so well played. It was perfect. The troop visiting Corky at his apartment, the dinner with the Albertsons, the awkward dinner, the actual musical, the whole musical, the epilogue. What's what's your like favorite scene that stands out for you?

SPEAKER_02 54:09

So I texted you um that to me, there's one absolutely perfect scene in this movie, and that's dinner with the Albertsons. Yes. Um, I I just thought that was that like that. Actually, I think is the exact same quality, and I mean it's it's the same gag too, but it's um it's the dinner party.

SPEAKER_00 54:32

It's the dinner party, exactly. I was thinking the exact same thing. The dinner party at the office is just taking from that, it's just elevating that. You're like, let's make that dinner scene the awkward, like everyone's been to like a weird awkward dinner scene where you're hanging out maybe with co-workers or like people you don't know that well, and then somebody goes over the line or it's just awkward. That scene essentially stretched out for 30-35 minutes is the dinner party, which is, in my opinion, the best episode of The Office.

SPEAKER_02 55:04

Yeah, yeah, it's so good, and that scene is so good. You know, I didn't even think about the musical, but the musical is a phenomenal scene as well, but for different reasons. I think it's just shocking that like it was good.

SPEAKER_00 55:17

It's shocking that it was good, and then I do have to say the the whole bit that they think Guffman's there, and then and you kind of know it's coming now. We've we know this format. I think maybe if I watched this for the first time in the 90s, and we know this format now. Again, all the bits and jokes used from this movie have been replayed in Parkston Recon Office and Modern Family. But the idea that Guffman is not, he's some random guy who just fell upon and sat in that stage. But I knew the joke was coming. I was like, this is classic, they're super excited. They're they're like giving him all this credit, like, oh, Mr. Guffman, Mr. Guffman, and it's not Mr. Guffman and the disappointment and disdain on the cast's faces because they think they're gonna go to New York, they're right, they're like, This is going to Broadway after he says that. That's just like a nice tag on top of the musical that I I just absolutely adore. For me, the epilogue is my favorite. I think to end the movie where we get to look into these characters' lives a couple months later, and then to be all still so uh naive and naively like believing in uh the arts or musical theater or Dairy Queen, whatever it may be, is so heartwarming and encouraging and funny at the same time. It just it warms my heart. It just was like such a fun way to end it, and also I was like, I want more, which I think is probably the best and worst part of the movie, is it's only like an hour and a half. All right, Mike, let's move on to ratings and meaning. Uh, what did you rate this on letterbox?

SPEAKER_02 56:55

So, again, my letterbox scores are pretty harsh. Um, I gave it three and a half stars, four and a half for me.

SPEAKER_00 57:03

Uh, it's almost a perfect movie. It just again, as I mentioned, I wanted more, but I'm also glad that it is only an hour and a half. And I'm not necessarily a huge musical fan, so like I I don't necessarily like I was like, this is good, but I don't necessarily want to watch an entire musical.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

Yeah, that was the only part where I was like, I don't know if I need to see the entire musical, but I I it wasn't necessarily yeah, that was definitely a choice, but you know, and and it's interesting, like the the amount of footage they had, right? And yeah, and what they edited it down to in that 90 minutes or or so, even I think just under. And um, it's I think I think you have to give a lot of credit to um Christopher Guest for that because it would have been really easy when he knew how good this was when he was making it, it would have been really easy for him to just keep putting other good material in there. Yeah, and um yeah, less is more sometimes, unfortunately for us, you know. Um not here at lit, though.

SPEAKER_00 58:04

I just not here at lit. We really believe more is more. We like it when it's we're talking longer than the movie, of course.

SPEAKER_02 58:10

Oh, yeah. That's that I mean that you're in you know what you're in for when you get you.

SPEAKER_00 58:16

Yeah, if you made it this far, you know what you know what it's all about. All right, Mike. What does this movie mean to you? Now, this is the interesting one because a lot of times we're coming at this from a nostalgic lens where we're looking back of re-watching a movie or something like that. But what what does this movie mean to you? What stands out to you what on watching for this for the first time?

SPEAKER_02 58:35

Yeah, this movie is kind of mixed into like a period of my life right now where I've just been like never-endingly consuming um Catherine Hero and keeping the child alive, and keeping the child alive, but like the content I'm consuming is is mostly just stuff that she was in. Um and uh so like this movie was um cathartic for me. It was um it just it just made me happy uh that um I'm getting to, even though she's gone, like I'm getting to to like appreciate her for the first time again, you know what I mean? Like I haven't seen this before, and there's other work of hers that I just haven't seen. Um, and um, so like it was like I at as I was watching this, I was also getting into the studio. So it was like I was getting some of her um like mid-90s stuff, and I was getting some stuff that she just did.

SPEAKER_01 59:31

Right.

SPEAKER_02 59:31

And it was like, oh, this is really cool. Like she never stopped being just absolutely hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 59:40

Yeah, I think it's an amazing legacy, and I think that's the good way to wrap up this episode is this movie is just a slice of a great career that ended too soon. But the beauty of these types of creative people who have brought so much joy to us, to to their fans, to people who haven't found the waiting for Guthmans that are Catherine O'Hara fans. We can always go back to it, we can always experience new works of theirs, and their legacy lives on. And I think this film is just one of many examples of why we love Catherine O'Hara and will love Catherine O'Hara and that she meant a lot to us as fans of comedy, fans of movies, fans of TV shows. But fans of joy, yeah, that's the most important thing. Like, if you want joy, watch this movie, watch Catherine O'Hara in it. And I think that's really what this movie means to me. Mike, thanks for coming back. Yeah. We're so glad to have you back. Hopefully, we'll uh figure out the contract and make sure that's uh all signed, sealed, and delivered. And all good. You know, your lawyers signed. Yeah, yeah. All the lawyers have vetted everything that we're not breaching contracts. Friends, thank you for watching, listening, and we'll talk to you next time on least important things.